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CBD (Cannabidiol) Explained – The Real Benefits of this Trendy Cannabinoid

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While a fringe, alternative treatment option only a decade ago, today, CBD is everywhere you look – in wellness supplements, beauty and hygiene products, FDA-approved prescription medications, food and beverages, dental products, and even pillows, mattresses, and other random household goods.

As far as cannabinoids go, CBD, or cannabidiol) is the most widely accepted. Not only is there a growing body of clinical research to support its benefits, but it is non-intoxicating which makes it much more likely for laws to be passed in its favor – as is evidenced by the fact that CBD is federally legal in the US and many other countries, while THC still is not. But when it comes to CBD, what are some actual legitimate uses for this compound, and which ones are just marketing gimmicks? Let’s take a look at some of the real, science-backed benefits of CBD.

CBD is amazing, and so incredibly versatile. To learn more about this compound, and for exclusive deals on CBD flowers, as well as on Delta 8Delta 10 THCTHCVTHC-OTHCPHHC and even on legal Delta-9 THC! , make sure to subscribe to The CBD Flowers Weekly Newsletter, your hub for all things CBD-related.


What is CBD?

CBD, or cannabidiol, is the most prominent, non-intoxicating compound found in cannabis plants. When most people think of cannabis, they’re thinking about marijuana, which is the type so cannabis that is high in THC and associated with feelings of being “stoned”. Some types of cannabis, hemp for example, are high in CBD and contain only trace amounts of THC, meaning these plants can be considered non-intoxicating, by all accounts.

CBD is gaining popularity as a safe, non-toxic, non-addictive, natural treatment option for many different chronic and debilitating ailments; both mental and physical. Not only is CBD itself non-psychoactive, but when taken in combination with compounds that are, like tetrahydrocannabinol for instance, CBD can minimize the likelihood of negative side effects such as paranoia and anxiety that are occasionally associated with THC use.

The reason CBD (or any cannabinoid for that matter) works in the human body at all is because of the Endocannabinoid System (ECS) – a complex signaling system made up of numerous receptors, as well as some naturally produced endocannabinoids, that exists in the bodies of nearly all animals (except insects). Researchers have discovered two different endocannabinoids so far, 2-arachidonoylglycerol (2-AG) and anandamide (AEA), plus the two most studied receptors, CB1 and CB2. This quad makes up the majority of existing cannabis research.

As a whole, the ECS regulates numerous different functions and processes in our bodies and maintains internal balance and homeostasis. Many cannabinoids engage directly with the ECS receptors. Others, like CBD, have indirect connections by activating other receptors that will then interact with the endocannabinoid system. Specifically, CBD activates the TRVP1 receptors, which in turn activate receptors in the ECS and also function as ion channels.

CBD as an Anti-Inflammatory

One of the most common uses for CBD is to treat inflammation, which is the body’s process of fighting against pathogens and other hazards, such as infections, injuries, and toxins. When something damages your cells, your body releases chemicals that trigger a response from your immune system, thus causing inflammation.

The phrase “too much of a good thing” really applies in the case of inflammation. When this inflammatory response lingers after your body is done fighting the infection or whatever it is trying to overcome, this leaves your body in a constant state of stress and unrest. Chronic inflammation can have devastating effects on the tissues and organs and research indicates that it’s the root cause of many ailments including arthritis, contact dermatitis, acne, multiple sclerosis, and type 1 diabetes, asthma, and cancer.

Cannabidiol is becoming a very popular alternative for standard NSAID (Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug) drugs like Aspirin. Long-term use of NSAIDs can lead to various health problems such as heartburn, stomach pain, ulcers, headaches, dizziness, and even damage to the liver and kidneys.

CBD to Manage Anxiety

Anxiety is another condition that’s been researched extensively to determine how well it responds to cannabis therapies. Cannabidiol targets cell receptors in the body and brain that regulate your mood. Many mood disorders, including anxiety and depression, have a few things in common, including a lack of naturally produced endocannabinoids.

Treating mood disorders with CBD is becoming more widespread is among the top-rated treatment options for young adults ages 25-40. According to a study conducted a couple of years ago, thirty-four percent of millennials prefer to manage their mental health with natural and holistic remedies, and 50 percent of millennials believe CBD oil is the best way to do this; and this number continues to grow.

The main reason cited was a fear of being prescribed a medication that is too potent for their level of symptoms. Because CBD doesn’t have the mind-numbing and other unwanted side effects of prescription drugs, nor is it psychoactive like THC, it can be used all day like any other medication or supplement.

CBD for Controlling Seizures

One of the first, medically-accepted, modern-day uses for CBD was to treat epilepsy. There are many studies out there researching its effectiveness. As a matter of fact, there is even an FDA-approved, cannabidiol-based medication, Epidiolex, that’s used to treat two rare and severe forms of childhood epilepsy, Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome (LGS) and Dravet Syndrome (DS).

Epidiolex is currently being prescribed in the United States, many countries in Europe, and Japan. Epilepsy medications can have some very serious side effects, and that’s why more natural alternatives are becoming the go-to ­­way to treat children and younger adult patients who suffer from epilepsy.

CBD for Pain Management

Although not common, many patients turn to a CAM, or complementary alternative medicine approach, to manage chronic pain. CBD is at the top of the list for those looking for natural, yet effective, alternative remedies. Because inflammation is the root cause of so many conditions that cause chronic pain, it makes sense how CBD eliminates pain.

Numerous different studies have found that cannabinoids like CBD can help with chronic pain from multiple sclerosis, cancer, and neuropathy. CBD and CBD topicals help with pain — if you suffer from chronic pain, CBD oil may help, as well. Chronic pain can be the main source of a diminished quality of life — CBD may give you hope for getting pain-free, or at the very least, reduced pain, and anything is worth a try.

CBD for Skin Conditions

Studies have shown that CBD can provide relief for the symptoms of various skin disorders, such as eczema and allergic reactions. Reverting back to ​inflammation, we know that cannabidiol can be used internally inflammatory conditions, and now we also know that it does the same when applied topically.

Topical creams containing CBD have been shown to ​or greatly reduce and sometimes even completely eliminate itching and dryness​ ​in sufferers of eczema. The chemical ‘histamine’, which is largely responsible for the irritating itches we experience, has been shown to react well to topical cannabinoid therapy. One study​ ​found that in almost 59% of its participants, their dry and scaly skin significantly reduced with the regular use of a cannabinoid cream, which reduced itching and as a result lead to less sleep loss.

Final Thoughts on Cannabidiol Benefits

Simply put, cannabidiol is an incredible compound. It’s non-psychoactive, non-toxic, and non-addictive; and it can be used to treat dozens of different health conditions. The ones covered in this list are the most common uses for CBD, but it can be utilized for many other ailments as well. Do you use CBD? And if so, what do you use it for? Drop us a line in the comment section below!

Thank you for stopping by CBD TESTERS, your hub for all things cannabis-related. To learn more about weed, and for exclusive deals on flowers, vapes, edibles, topicals, and other products, make sure to subscribe to The CBD Flowers Weekly Newsletter.

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Source: https://cbdtesters.co/2021/09/23/cbd-cannabidiol-explained-the-real-benefits-of-this-trendy-cannabinoid/

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Exploring Cannabis Culture: Berlin

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‘All free men, wherever they may live, are citizens of Berlin. And therefore, as a free man, I take pride in the words, ‘Ich bin ein Berliner!’ – John F. Kennedy

In the latest article in our series on cannabis culture around the world, we’ll be flying over to Berlin. As you may know, we define cannabis culture as the way that cannabis can be perceived and treated within a society, city or country.’  Of course this doesn’t just mean Cannabis alone, but also includes all of the separate cannabinoids that we find in the Cannabis plant – CBD and THC for example – So polish of your lederhosen, find your 99 red balloons and prepare to ‘sprechen sie deutsch‘ as we jet over to the capital city of Germany and investigate the weed culture in Berlin.

Cannabis is gaining popularity across the globe. In Europe, the laws are still a bit more strict than in the United States, but in many regions, recreational marijuana use is quickly becoming the new norm. To learn more about changing regulations and emerging trends, make sure to subscribe to The Medical Cannabis Weekly Newsletter, your hub for all things cannabis-related, including more articles like this one and exclusive deals on flowers, vapes, edibles, and other legal products.

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Berlin 

Berlin is located on the river Spree in the North East of Germany. A large city, with a lot of history, its population is nearly 4 million, making it the biggest city in the European Union, though not in Europe. Founded in the 12th Century, Berlin has seen its fair share of historical events. Under Frederick the Great’s rule it became the centre of the Enlightenment, it was also home to the expressionist movement and of course was integral both during and after World War Two. Famously being split between the West, a more liberal and capitalist city and the East, part of the USSR where life was a lot bleaker and tough. The Berlin wall became an iconic, but tragic reminder of the differences between the East and the West especially during the war. It prompted artworks and songs, such as Lou Reed’s Berlin:

“In Berlin, by the wall

You were five foot ten inches tall

It was very nice

Candlelight and Dubonnet on ice”

Since the fall of the wall, Berlin has now become one of the most lively and happening places in Europe and is full of famous clubs, bars and sights to see making it an unmissable stop on anyone’s road-trip through Europe and it’s attitude to Cannabis and drugs has lead to it becoming a mainstay on any drug trip around Europe too.

Here are some of the top places to visit in Barcelona, the beautiful horizon, some famous sites and scenes to see.

The Berghain 

Arguably the most famous club not just in Berlin, but in the whole of Europe, the Berghain has become a icon of exclusivity. People call it a church, a way of life, an institution. It’s near impossible to get in as the bouncers will assess everybody and only allow those deemed to have the right vibe are allowed to enter. Once inside an incredible, techno dream awaits, where liberal attitudes to sex and drugs keep the party going from Saturday to Monday… If you can get in, it’s worth the wait.

The Reichstag

The seat of the German government, this building is an iconic symbol of what Berlin has been through. It’s been re-built, it housed the Nazis, it was bombed and now, with its glass centre, it’s a must visit part of the city. Make sure you book a trip to the very top of the glass dome for a view over Berlin.

Cannabis in Berlin

So, what is the cannabis culture like on the streets of Berlin? It appears that Berlin’s relationship with Cannabis dates back quite far. An urn from around 500BC was found containing Cannabis plants and seeds, suggesting that the city has an ancient connection to Cannabis. It is not a rare sight to see and smell people smoking cannabis around the city and the attitude towards drugs in general in Berlin is quite relaxed. However, the possession and selling of Cannabis in Germany is illegal. This doesn’t stop the millions of Germans from smoking Cannabis, Statista found that Germans were the joint tenth highest population in Europe, and other studies have shown a general increase in young people smoking cannabis in Germany and in Berlin too, so let’s examine the laws in Berlin in a little more detail.

Is It Legal?

Simply put, no… Cannabis possession and selling is not legal in Berlin or Germany. The German Federal Narcotics act made sure of that. If caught in possession of any drugs, including Cannabis, you could face up to five years in prison. But, whilst possessing the drug is listed as an offence, using it isn’t. If someone is caught smoking Cannabis, the punishment isn’t always that severe. Germany use a ‘treatment over punishment’ approach which means you’re more likely to get a telling off than a severe prison sentence if you’re found smoking cannabis. What’s more, the law actually says that if you’re caught with a ‘small amount’ then you’re not really committing an offence. The term small amount varies from region to region in Germany, but in Berlin it is up to 15 grams, the highest amount in the whole of Germany, again making Berlin the hot spot of the country.

Illegal

So possessing a small amount of cannabis is legal, but what happens if you’re caught with more than 15g in the city. The punishment for the possession of drugs can range from a $30,000 fine, to up to two years in prison. Under the Narcotics Act, Cannabis is listed as Appendix 1, what this means is that it’s in the least severe category of drugs, but still if found with a large amount, a prosecution can occur. Even though it is illegal, anecdotal accounts of smoking Cannabis in Berlin is that often the police don’t take notice, or if they do you are more likely going to be asked to give up the cannabis rather than being directly punished, much like in London and Barcelona too.

Legal 

Some forms of Cannabis consumption are actually legal in Germany and Berlin. As stated above, having a small amount of the drug means you’re likely to escape prosecution, but there are also other forms of legal cannabis you can acquire in the city. As with all members of the EU, the use and sale of CBD is totally legal, and there are loads of great CBD shops around the city offering all sorts of useful CBD products. Also, medical Cannabis has been legal since 2017. Medical Cannabis is available to pick up from the pharmacy with a prescription for patients on chemotherapy and with certain disorders and diseases, such as multiple sclerosis. This was pushed through after lobbying from the Left and Green parties in the country and shows the forward thinking attitudes towards the benefits of Cannabis in the city.

The City’s General Attitude to Cannabis 

Even though the laws are a little tough on drug use, Berlin has become famous for its relaxed nature around them. People go to Berlin to rave and party and it is very easy to acquire drugs in the city. There are a number of parades hosted in the city, such as the love parade and the hemp parade that celebrate the city’s attitude to drug culture and party lifestyles. 

The Love Parade

The Love parade started in 1989 as a political protest against the Berlin wall, but quickly ended up being one of the most famous celebrations of rave culture in the world. People openly smoke cannabis and take drugs in this marching celebration of all things rave, that makes its way through the city.

The Hemp Parade 

As the English homepage for the event states: The Hanfparade (“Hemp parade”) is the largest and most traditional march for Cannabis as medicine, natural resource and recreational drug in Germany.” The march celebrates Cannabis for all of its glorious reasons. Thousands of people protest in the city for the legalisation of the drug and enjoy music, food and all the fun of a festival whilst also raising awareness of the properties of the cannabis plant. Again, this shows the fun loving attitude and relaxed, positive view of Cannabis in Berlin.

The Hemp museum

In the centre of the city you can even find a hemp museum, celebrating the multitude of uses the plan has, from pharmaceuticals to medicines, the museum showcases just how brilliant the Cannabis plant and its products are and offers an optimistic view of a future that focuses on getting the best from Hemp and cannabis.

Conclusion

Berlin is a beautiful city, full of history and fun-loving city members. It’s seen its fair share of hardship over the many years of its existence, but now seems to be in a cultural glory decade, hosting some of the most famous clubs, the largest Cannabis marches and the most open minded attitude of most European cities. With the legalization of medical Cannabis, we can hope that over the next few years, the already relaxed attitude will grow even more so. Remember that if you visit the city, a ‘small amount’ is pretty much legal, but still do be careful as there’s a little way to go before complete legalization. Auf Wiedersehen… for now.

Thank you for stopping by CBD TESTERS, your top source for all things cannabis-related. Remember to subscribe to The Medical Cannabis Weekly Newsletter for more articles like this one and exclusive deals on flowers, vapes, edibles, and other products.

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Source: https://cbdtesters.co/2021/10/17/cannabis-culture-berlin/

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How Can Psychology Improve the Effects of Cannabis?

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We are in the age of self-help, the era of improvement and being the best you can be and it can get a little tiring. It’s hard not to sometimes shrug at the suggestion that psychology can help improve our experiences and the way we interact with the world, but we’re here to hopefully change that view.

Psychology has a reach so far that all aspects of our lives have been dissected and studied by men in white lab coats holding clipboards. A surprising amount of research has also been done into how to improve day to day experiences, such as eating, drinking and relaxing to get the most out of them. Of course the experience that I’m going to investigate in this article is cannabis and psychology. Could it be possible that Psychology and the findings from the science could be used to improve the effects of cannabis on the brain and in general?

In this article, I’ll be looking at how we can use our senses (Sound, taste, sight), sociality and context to get the most out of the drug we love, both recreationally and medically. Our brain, and its ability to be influenced by its surroundings, is fascinating and we will be looking at how we can affect it through internal and external changes.

Both psychology and cannabis are hot topics of discussion lately, because both are holistic approaches to ailments that affect millions of people across the globe. It only makes sense at this point that we combine the two for ultimate healing results. Make sure to subscribe to The Medical Cannabis Weekly Newsletter for more articles like this one and exclusive deals on flowers, vapes, edibles, and other legal products.


Cannabis and the Brain

Before we look at how to improve the effects of cannabis, we must first discuss how it affects the brain. Cannabis works on the brain and body by interacting with the endocannabinoid system (ECS). This is an intricate system of neurons in the brain that seems to control the release of multiple neurotransmitters. It was discovered in the 1990s and seems to be linked to many processes in the brain and body, including appetite, learning and memory and sleep.

Both CBD and THC, two cannabinoids found in Cannabis, activate the ECS and seem to produce the neurotransmitter dopamine, which is linked to reward and pleasure in the brain. This is the neurotransmitter that creates the euphoric high associated with Cannabis. If we can find ways to increase the production of this neurotransmitter Dopamine or find ways to affect the interaction of cannabinoids on the ECS, then perhaps this will have a wholly positive effect on the experience of getting high.

Get the Snacks Out: Food and the ECS

It has long been known that food tastes better after smoking cannabis, in fact studies on rats have shown that cannabinoids increase the senses of smell and taste, but there is also new emergent research suggesting that some foods can actually increase the effect of these same cannabinoids. According to a fascinating list created by NMJ Health, Mangoes, Chocolate and black Tea all have properties that increase the effect of Cannabis for recreational and medical purposes. Mangoes contain natural chemicals that actively help cannabinoids interact with the body’s ECS mentioned above.

By eating Mangoes before inhaling or injecting marijuana products you increase the levels of these chemicals (terpenes) that allow for this interaction. This means that the effects of the cannabis will set in a lot quicker, that they’ll be stronger and that the effects will last longer.  With Chocolate, it appears that the cannabinoids in cannabis that produce the euphoric effects are naturally occurring. Studies have even shown that a chemical in chocolate called

Anandamide binds to cannabinoid receptors mimicking and heightening the effect of Cannabis. Not only is this research incredible as it shows that chocolate can increase the overall effects of cannabis, but the practical applications for the use of medical marijuana and dosing cannot be overstated. Black tea and broccoli also seem to improve the experience of Cannabis. Black tea by producing longer and more sustained feelings of peace and relaxation. It is clear to see from this rather eclectic set of foods and the research behind them that we can change the effects of Cannabis through changing what we eat. 

Set the Mood: Music and Dopamine

Another avenue for increasing the experience that cannabis can offer through psychology and psychological research is to look at the effect sound and music has on a high. Music has long been associated with feelings of pleasure and relaxation, but recent research has shown that listening to music that gives you chills actually produces the neurotransmitter dopamine (a neurotransmitter linked to cannabis and the ECS. It seems then that listening to music you enjoy and instrumental music (the study found) leads to an increased amount of dopamine. This combined with the high levels of dopamine released when using cannabis can only result in a more pleasurable experience, again highlighting another way that psychology and the environment around you can influence your experience of cannabis.

Watch Those Lights: Sight, Colour, Taste and Experience 

This next paragraph may come as the most surprising to readers. Vision may be one of the most powerful senses when it comes to changing our experiences of the world. Being in a room with a certain colour scheme or using particular lights can influence our mental states and how we feel. To create a more calm and relaxed experience while using cannabis, a recent study has shown that blue lighting is best. The same study also showed that red light and yellow light increases heart rate, so perhaps should be avoided unless you want to induce a potential panic attack.

 There are ways that we can use our vision to influence our experiences of things like taste and smell too. Studies by Charles Spence, an Oxford researcher have shown that the colour of crockery used when eating actually changes the subjective experience of flavour. Red dishes increased perceptions of sweetness in some popcorn and blue seemed to increase perceptions of saltiness. What this means is that a particular coloured skin or vape could actually alter the taste of the cannabis inhaled. If you prefer a sweeter experience, perhaps using a red vape might do this for you. Again, this research highlights how we can use psychology to generally increase our cannabis experience. 

Changing up Your Environment 

One of the biggest factors that can reduce the enjoyment of cannabis is tolerance. A tolerance to a certain chemical just means that it takes more to achieve the same effect. From a neuro-chemical point of view, it just takes a greater amount of cannabinoids to activate the ECS. Tolerance arises due to frequent use of the drug. Can psychology be used to help us with tolerance? An incredible study actually seems to suggest it can, and the way one can overcome a tolerance seems to be through altering context.

Context just means the environments around you. It has long been studied in psychology as animals and humans seem to have powerful associations between context and memory. If you revise in a certain context (classroom) your results in a test done in that same context will be higher than if you alter it. Here’s where tolerance comes in: If you smoke cannabis in the same environment, your body associates that context with cannabis and will actually build up a tolerance that is context specific. In a fascinating review by Siegel et al the preparation and expectation of taking a drug can lead to the body preparing itself and therefore reducing the effects. When dogs were conditioned into taking adrenaline in a specific context, just placing the dog in that room was enough for their bodies to prepare to counter the high blood pressure, even without injecting anything.

The core study by Siegel was conducted on heroin users and it was found that the opposite is true as well. If a user of heroin takes the drug in a context they are not used to they are more likely to require medical treatment as it seems their tolerance is not there. The body was not prepared because it was not in the context associated with the drug. The very same principle of association and context can be applied to cannabis use. If you use the drug in the same context over and over again, the tolerance will be associated with that specific location, so to increase the effect, change up where you light up.

Being Around Others: Socialising and Dopamine 

A final way that cannabis can be improved is through being around others. It seems obvious to say, but being around others is good for the brain. It increases feelings of happiness and can relax us as well if we are around people we love, but it may be surprising to learn that socialising also increases dopamine levels, giving us a little high. This increase in dopamine is theorised to be a reward for being around others and evolutionary psychologists have argued that socialising and bonding with others is heavily linked to the reward areas of our brain and dopamine production. So perhaps combining socialising and cannabis will create a huge boost of dopamine and increase the euphoria of cannabis experiences.

Conclusion – Combining Cannabis and Psychology

I hope that from the list above you find even one thing to use to make your experiences of cannabis even better. I hope it’s also clear that any method can be useful but they are only suggestions and sometimes just sticking to what you know and enjoy is more than enough to have a great time. Cannabis is a fascinating drug and the mechanisms underlying it are still intriguing to psychologists. It affects so many areas of the brain that it isn’t surprising that the changes listed above can affect how it works. But what do you think?

Thank you for stopping by CBD TESTERS, your hub for all things cannabis-related. Remember to subscribe to The Medical Cannabis Weekly Newsletter for more articles like this one and exclusive deals on flowers, vapes, edibles, and other legal products. For the best Delta 8Delta 10THC-PTHC-OTHCVHHC and even Delta 9 products subscribe to the Delta 8 Weekly newsletter.

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Source: https://cbdtesters.co/2021/10/17/how-can-pyschology-improve-effects-of-cannabis/

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Nerds Rope Edibles

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I’ve been a nerds aficionado since the tender age of about 8 (when the sugar rush helped me to survive the boredom of my brothers’ Little League games). But nerds ropes take my love for these crunchy, sweet and tangy pellets of sugary goodness to a whole new level. It’s all the things you love […]

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Cannacurio Podcast Episode 39 with Steve LaFaille of Tecogen | Cannabiz Media

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Tecogen Vice President of Business Development Steve LaFaille joins Ed Keating to talk about how his company’s products help cannabis and hemp cultivators efficiently meet their engery needs as well as how his team uses the Cannabiz Media database to support their business development initiatives.

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Cannacurio Podcast Episode 39 Transcript

Ed Keating:

This is a Cannacurio Podcast by Cannabiz Media, your source for cannabis and hemp license news directly from the Data Vault. Welcome to the Cannacurio Podcast powered by Cannabiz Media. I’m your host Ed Keating. Today, we’re joined by Steve LaFaille of Tecogen. So Steve, welcome to the podcast.

Steve LaFaille:

A great to be with you, Ed.

Ed Keating:

Excellent. So in doing some research on your company, I see that Tecogen’s has been around for four decades. That’s quite some time. Could you give us a little bit of the backstory, how did they start out and how did they get where they are today?

Steve LaFaille:

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. We’re coming up on our 40th anniversary, I think 1982 is the official start date of Tecogen.

Ed Keating:

Wow.

Steve LaFaille:

And it’s funny if you look over time, 40 years is a long time, but the central electric grid really hasn’t gotten that much more efficient and that much cleaner, during that time. So our value proposition largely hasn’t changed and if anything, electricity from the grid has gotten more expensive. So, the value proposition, it’s just gotten better for us over time and for our customers.

Steve LaFaille:

But our roots are based at the company called Thermo Electron, who’s now part of a much larger company, Thermo Fisher Scientific, and that’s where we got started. And that company was very successful and Tecogen’s products are one of the first products that they commercialize. So, some neat history there. We’re a separate company now, publicly traded on the OTC Stock Exchange. But yeah, that’s a long history there, of technology development and certainly staying power in the industry. I’d like to think we’d become a household name, kin to Kleenex, so to speak.

Ed Keating:

Yeah.

Steve LaFaille:

So that’s all about Tecogen, when it comes to onsite CHP and power generation.

Ed Keating:

And what is CHB stand for, just in case some of our listeners don’t know?

Steve LaFaille:

Sure. So, Combined Heat and Power is the acronym definition there. And other terms people use, cogeneration is a synonym. So, if you hear that term, cogeneration, there’re different terminologies that have been in vogue at different times. CHP seems to be the latest invoked a term for it, but you’re essentially generating all or a portion of your power onsite at the facility, instead of buying it from the central electric grid.

Ed Keating:

Sure.

Steve LaFaille:

And that concept is really based in and there’s economic justification for doing so. There’s greenhouse gas savings when you do that, due to the higher efficiency of onsite generation, and so on. So that’s why onsite energy production makes sense.

Ed Keating:

Got it.

Steve LaFaille:

For all industries, for a lot of industries anyway, cannabis just being one of them.

Ed Keating:

Yeah. Well, let’s poke into that a bit, because I’m going to bet that in 1982, you guys were not positioning yourself outside of greenhouses and helping people grow cannabis? So, back then when you’re part of the other company, what were the industries that benefited from, what has become the Tecogen solution?

Steve LaFaille:

Sure. Yeah. So over time we’ve served a lot of large institutional customers, a lot of healthcare, hospitals-

Ed Keating:

All right.

Steve LaFaille:

… are a large part of our business, universities, large multifamily housing, correctional facilities, generally, any facility manufacturing. Not a great example, but people that need large amounts of energy, heating, cooling, and power, and different combinations of those, will steer you to different types of systems we make. And of course, cannabis is such a large user of energy. It’s such an energy-intensive process that we fell into that industry a few years back and realizing that, “Hey, our products are really a great fit here and for all the same reasons that they are in these other industries.” But in addition to those reasons, there’s new or different drivers that we’re seeing in cannabis that we haven’t really seen in those other industries. So, it’s almost the most compelling application for our systems that we’ve yet to see. So, that’s been really interesting for us.

Ed Keating:

So could you illuminate a little bit on those drivers? I mean, I imagine they probably have things like CO2, there’s no other power around or other things, but help us understand what are some of those unique cannabis industry drivers?

Steve LaFaille:

Sure. Yeah. So maybe good to start with the normal drivers, which still exist. Mostly what people are looking for our technology for, is operational cost savings.

Ed Keating:

Yep.

Steve LaFaille:

So they’re looking to get a lower utility spend on their facility and most people understand there’s also a greenhouse gas benefit that comes along with that and people like to get that as well, as a side benefit. So, that’s certainly important to cannabis growers, but we also are seeing the electric capacity issue come up a lot. And that being, someone doesn’t have enough electric power available to them at the facility they’ve chosen, it’s either not available at all, in some cases.

Ed Keating:

Wow.

Steve LaFaille:

Or they can’t get it in a reasonable timeframe. And obviously, time is money in this business, so the longer you take to get opened up, the potential to make less profit as the prices start to drop when supply catches up with demand. So people are very sensitive to that. So it’s the timing of getting the power they need. Sometimes they can’t get all of it they need. So they were having to maybe sacrifice canopy to fit in with their available electric service.

Ed Keating:

Right.

Steve LaFaille:

So we’re able to come in and say, “Hey, look, not only do we provide all these other benefits that are going to be helpful to your business and your profitability, but we can also help you get growing faster, maybe avoid millions and millions of dollars of upgrades.” Sometimes these customers are having to actually fund some utility upgrades, maybe a substation upgrade, and those are big costs that you can avoid. And by avoiding those costs, you’re also helping get your utility bills lower. So it really is a win-win. And we’ve seen a little bit of that in other industries, sometimes a hospital would expand and they would be short electric service. But it was pretty few and far between that, that became a driver in other industries, but cannabis, it seems like almost every other customer, we’ve contributed to helping alleviate those concerns.

Ed Keating:

Well, yeah, I’m sure. I’m playing out the sales call in my head. Like, “So Ed, what gating factors do you have?” “Oh, power.” “Well, we can solve that.” “Really?” Off you go, because if you can remove such a big barrier that really, truly holds down production, profitability, revenue, expansion, that’s a real great value prop to have and it’s one that people can understand. I don’t imagine you have to do a lot of explaining because they get it or they’re suffering from it, almost right out of the gate, I would think?

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, absolutely. We started getting phone calls several years ago from folks and as THP or co-generation salespeople were so trained to talk about the utility cost savings in it, the cost savings. And then we were getting people saying, “No, that’s great and that’s a side benefit. My first goal is to get my facility open and solve my electric capacity constraint.” And we were just astonished by how often this kept coming up and continues to come up.

Ed Keating:

Wow. Go on.

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah. I was going to say, one thing we were scratching our heads about was, why do we see so many people finding themselves in this position of not having enough electric capacity and why aren’t they doing their due diligence beforehand? And I think as I’ve come to realize, it’s not always that simple. You get into this chicken and egg scenario where you need to get your building selected and then you need to do all this engineering and spend a lot of money before you can even get the utility, all the information they need. Because they may not tell you what’s available to you without a really detailed engineering analysis that you can present to them. So you get into this really tricky scenario and I think that’s how people end up in that position.

Ed Keating:

Yeah. So I want to go back to the industry piece because this often happens or we see this. Because the way Cannabiz Media looks at the market is, we see companies that are canna- serious, they only work in the cannabis industry. And then those that at one point were canna-curious. They’re like, “Hey, we have a product that might work in the cannabis industry.” So, you’re in the situation where the cannabis industry reached out to you and said, “Hey, Tecogen, you could help us out.” I’m curious though, once that happened, what was that discussion like internally, where suddenly you have these traditional industries, institutional healthcare, hospitality, multifamily, and you’re like, “We’re going to do cannabis now.” Was that something that was just a normal extension of your other agricultural efforts? Or was it something that was a harder, curious sell inside the company?

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, that’s a great question because we’ve certainly seen a lot of traditional companies that existed long before cannabis became legalized, hesitant. Right?

Ed Keating:

Yeah.

Steve LaFaille:

And we definitely, that wasn’t the case for us. We jumped in feet first without hesitation. And I think that really helped us get moving and I wish we would have done it even a little sooner. We were maybe a year or two later to the party than we could have been, we missed the Colorado boat there. But we didn’t hesitate once we started realizing how good of a fit we were. We jumped in feet first and we saw a lot of people that offered similar things, maybe not, but people that made more traditional HVAC equipment, some of the bigger companies were still hesitant for several years after we started really doing work in this space and now they’re starting to just come around. But I think that really hurt people, it was off-putting for customers if you had that type of hesitation.

Ed Keating:

Yeah, certainly.

Steve LaFaille:

We accepted them with open arms and it’s done really well for us.

Ed Keating:

That’s great. That’s great. Now, going back to that example you were talking about, the planning aspect of this whole situation, for let’s say, growers. So, I’d recently seen a headline where a facility was trying to get there or trying to get the facility up and running. And the county had made an investment on trying to upgrade the electric at a park someplace to attract businesses. But I guess when the cultivator got there, they found out that there just wasn’t enough power to meet their needs, right from the get-go. So, does Tecogen run into potential customers with these kinds of challenges, where suddenly, they find themselves in a place where like, “Yeah, we really can’t get all the power that we need here.”

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, absolutely. That comes up a lot. And again, we’re able to go in there, we’re able to offer a solution that is in most cases, significantly less costly than what the upgrade would have cost them. So it’s better from that standpoint. And also, it’s generally, much faster.

Ed Keating:

Oh, right.

Steve LaFaille:

Because even if you decide, “Hey, I’m going to pony up and pay the electric utility to upgrade.” It might take them two years to get you what you need. Right? And that’s not an exaggeration.

Ed Keating:

Wow.

Steve LaFaille:

It’s usually measured in six months to a year. That’s the measurement we’re talking about, how long this stuff takes. And in this industry, a lot can change, if you open up a year later. Potentially, it could take you a lot longer to recoup your investment.

Ed Keating:

Well, and if you have a state license that has a time clock on it, you need to be operational within 12 months or whatever it is. I mean, we’re seeing that still happening in certain states that are trying to juice their licensing. And if you don’t meet that timeframe, you are in jeopardy. I think Missouri, just said they were going to yank 30 licenses, although we’re not sure if that’s going to happen. And in a similar vein, New York is like, “Yeah, we’re going to issue licenses.” But meanwhile, the tribes are like, “Yeah, you do that. We’re going to issue ours right now.” And then they’re going to be cranking out licenses in a couple of weeks. Whereas, New York is probably 12 months away.

Steve LaFaille:

Right.

Ed Keating:

So, the time is money point that you’ve consistently made, is definitely an issue of, you don’t want to wait.

Steve LaFaille:

Absolutely. And your other alternative is terrible. You’ve got to go back to your investors and say, “Look, we’ve got to reduce our canopy by 40% to fit into our available electric.” And that doesn’t jive with the proformer that they’re representing. Right?

Ed Keating:

No, don’t want to be at that board meeting. That’s never fun.

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, exactly. Hopefully they find us. They know about us or can find us and we can get to the table and show them how we can help solve their problem in what’s most likely, a much more palatable manner. And plus going forward beyond that problem, you’re going to have lower utility costs, which is just going to help you be a more competitive business. When competition heats up, and there’s downward price pressure. You’re going to be in a better position to keep being profitable.

Ed Keating:

So, Steve, this might be outside of the realm of Tecogen, but does anybody help these municipalities and folks who are trying to get ready for cannabis businesses, to help them understand what the power needs really are? Because it’s not an unknown thing, at least for those of us who’ve been in the industry for a while, yeah, this is a big issue. But is anybody helping those people understand? Or is it the poor license holders who are like, “Yeah, you need to triple that.” Or whatever the right multiplier is.

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah. I think there’s some rules of thumb, but from what I found, the utility really wants a pretty detailed, what they call, load letter, which is, “This is how much power we need, exactly.” And to get to that, you generally have to have a consulting engineer on board and you need to have spent some money to get to that point. And I think a lot of people have a building and maybe there’s a lot of other great reasons they wanted to use that space and then sometimes electric concerns come later.

Steve LaFaille:

But I think there’s definitely a certain type of consulting engineer out there that gets involved earlier in the process with owners that will help them look at buildings, to assess them before they even make a commitment and look at what service is available. If they have to do any due diligence with the local utilities, they can help do that, they understand that process. So, I’ve seen that be really helpful for an owner to have a consulting engineer that gets involved early in the process and helps them really identify, “Is it really a good building or location from a utilities standpoint, power, water, gas, all those things that you need to really operate such an energy-intense facility.

Ed Keating:

Okay. Decades ago I worked in Manhattan and we happen to be in a building that was one of the first places that Google took over, was the old Port Authority Bus Terminal or something like that. It was a giant building and the level of internet that they brought in was just amazing. And I think we got lucky in that it had beneficial externalities for us. But I do know that I think people then wanted to choose that building because it was really well set up, in terms of that particular piece of infrastructure.

Ed Keating:

So I think you’re right, that people have to put power higher up on their checklist. So, we’ve talked about a couple things. I’d like to understand more about the benefits and what matters most because there can definitely be an ROI being more cost-effective. There’s the efficiency, there’s a cleanliness of power. Are there also taxation benefits for a cannabis business, where this can impact maybe what they can write-off or not write-off?

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, sure. So definitely would like to address all of that because as I mentioned, I think about, let’s say 50% of our customers in this space, they haven’t necessarily had an electric capacity constraint. So, they did choose to do this for all those other reasons. So the ROI, you’re somewhere, typically, say, two to five-year range for these types of products. And we make two distinct types of systems. We make a system that can generate electricity for your building and give you free heat that can be used to do dehumidification. We also make another product that the prime mover, the natural gas engine is directly connected to a refrigeration compressor. So we’re actually making the cooling for the building and then giving them free hot water for dehumidification.

Steve LaFaille:

So those two types of products, sometimes they’re used, either or, depending on the scenario. Sometimes they’re used in conjunction with one another. But all those products we make, generally are going to fall into that two to five-year ROI range. And that’s assuming we didn’t solve an electric capacity problem. If we solved an electric capacity problem, there’s no quote, unquote, payback period because chances are, this was less than what your alternative was. So that’s sort of the rough ROI. And certain states have incentive programs for energy efficiency, and that can dramatically reduce that period to even lower, which that’s a pretty reasonable period to start with. So if you get incentives great, if you don’t, still makes a lot of sense.

Steve LaFaille:

From a tax standpoint, there are some benefits. So combined heat and power systems do qualify for a couple of federal tax benefits. There’s a specific ITC investment tax credit for CHP systems to 10% ITC. And that’s applied generally to the system. So beyond our equipment, anything that’s involved in helping get the power and cooling and heating to the building. So that can be very beneficial. Insert disclaimer here, please consult your tax attorney. But that’s one big benefit. There’s also accelerated depreciation that comes into play. So that can be something that can be beneficial to people. I think most of our customers have taken advantage of these benefits.

Steve LaFaille:

Some of them, I don’t know for sure, but I suspect they have this generally, multiple business entities, that they’re structured to enable themselves to take business deductions and credits and so on. So that’s definitely something that people are considering when they make this decision. The cleanliness aspect, I think, is becoming more important to people. Cannabis has sort of gotten a bad rap for being energy intense.

Ed Keating:

Right.

Steve LaFaille:

Which it is inherently, but there’s a lot of other industries that use a lot of energy. No one really talks about how much energy it takes to make a can of beer, but I’m sure it takes quite a bit.

Ed Keating:

Or Bitcoin.

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, exactly. So they have that spotlight on them and they want to look at ways to alleviate that concern for their customers and let the customers know that they’re being environmentally conscious. So the fact that we’re offering, it’s roughly about a 50% carbon reduction versus doing things traditionally from the grid. So that’s becoming more and more important to people and we’re seeing it become a bigger part of the decision-making process. So that’s been great because it’s great to do something that’s good for your wallet, but you don’t want to necessarily be doing that at the expense of the environment. And that’s definitely not the case with CHP, you’re getting two benefits.

Ed Keating:

Yeah, indeed, indeed. That’s great. I mean, it seems that there’s multiple reasons why people go down this pathway. So what I’d like to do now is try and get a deeper understanding of your market and how you approach it? So just thinking through in my head, I’m assuming that your primary focus is indoor grows only, or primarily? Because would the same benefit apply if somebody had outdoor or a mix?

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah. So it’s been primarily indoor, warehouse-type grows, then a couple of greenhouse projects. But generally, it wouldn’t be outdoor because you need to have a controlled environment.

Ed Keating:

Yeah, right, right.

Steve LaFaille:

So controlled environment agriculture is what we’re targeting and greenhouse grows are in a completely different category because they come in all shapes and sizes. There’s some that have very minimal HVAC, there’re just maybe some fans and they don’t really control the environment perfectly or closely. And then there’s really sophisticated greenhouses that are almost completely sealed, have really sophisticated HVAC units.

Ed Keating:

Are robotically run. No people inside it.

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah. So if you’re trying to control your temperature and humidity perfectly, that’s the facility that we’re going to be part of because you’ll need mechanical cooling equipment, you’ll need sophisticated HVAC systems. So that’s where we would play. And that’s obviously, always the case for an indoor grow. So, that’s mainly where we focus, but I think as we see the industry, more and more people are assessing greenhouses, we’re seeing some hybrid, where some people can have an indoor grow, completely indoor. Maybe they’re going to make their perfect flower in there and they’re going to have a greenhouse or maybe they’re going to do a product destined for extraction, and then they might even have an outdoor piece. So we’re seeing that more often or a multi-style building.

Ed Keating:

Oh, interesting. Right. Right. And the other piece that you had mentioned is, how far are some of these facilities from traditional power sources? So, how do you figure that? Do you have your team Google maps, doing the flyovers to figure out how far people are away and is this a good place for us to try and sell our product? How does that come into play?

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah. I think, it generally hasn’t mattered too much. I think if they are off the beaten path, then they’re more likely to have an electric capacity constraint, which would be beneficial for us, I suppose, in that. But again, if they’re too far, then they might have issues with getting access to natural gas pipeline.

Ed Keating:

Oh, right. Yeah.

Steve LaFaille:

But there’s ways around that too and I’m glad you mentioned it because that has come up on several occasions, where there’s a couple of alternatives. So, one would be propane, which obviously can be trucked in. And so we have a couple of customers that are running on 100% propane. They didn’t have reasonable access to a natural gas pipeline. We have some other customers that actually participate in a program called, virtual pipeline, where they actually have CNG trailers deliver to their facility and the trailers park there and have a decompression station. And one trailer gets removed and another one backs in and then just a continuous process. So that’s another solution.

Steve LaFaille:

And all of those solutions generally, are going to A, have a lower operating cost and the grid electric that you could buy instead. And there are certainly easier ways to solve your electric capacity problem. There’s no virtual wires program to get more of an electric capacity there easily. So, that’s come up a little bit. So, it’s kind of a balance. You want to be close enough so that you can at least hopefully, get on the natural gas pipeline.

Steve LaFaille:

Maybe you didn’t have all the electricity you would have liked, but there are solutions around that, that actually have a great outcome for you in other areas of business, as far as your cost structure to operate and so on. But we’re looking at every state that’s legal right now because some states are going to have a larger savings on utility costs because energy costs more. But again, 50% of our customers are seeking us out, due to those electric capacity constraints and those are going to be present in almost every state.

Ed Keating:

So Steve, what about the size of those grows though, because they differ a lot? And the examples I can think of are on one end, you’ve got an unlimited license state, like Oklahoma that has thousands and thousands of grows, some of them are just in barns and whatnot. Versus Georgia, a giant potential market, but they’ve only given out six licenses. Two of them are 100,000 square feet and I think four are 50,000 square feet. So not a lot of canopy across the state. How do you guys assess it as a business? Do we go, trying to secure those couple MSOs in Georgia or is there actually money to be made in a place like Oklahoma?

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, sure. Great question. So, we’re looking for facilities, generally, the starting point that we’re looking at is around 10,000 square feet of canopy and up.

Ed Keating:

Oh, okay.

Steve LaFaille:

Which actually, most facilities are going to fall within that.

Ed Keating:

Yeah.

Steve LaFaille:

Some states have micro-license programs where you might have less than that, but we’re actually a fit in most facilities because really where you see our systems start to make sense is when you use chilled water for your HVAC. And generally, if you have a 200 to 300-ton cooling load or larger, chilled water’s going to make a lot of sense to use. So once you get to that point and you’ll hit that cooling load at again, 10,000 square feet of canopy, you’ve got 250 tons of cooling all day long. So that’s the starting point and then we go up from there.

Steve LaFaille:

And the larger you get, it just makes even more sense because if you have a 60,000 square foot canopy and you have a 1,200-ton cooling load, you’re going to be used in a fairly sophisticated HVAC system, chilled water distribution, most definitely. And really, that’s perfect for us. So, we tend to be a fit in smaller facilities than people would assume, I guess, because the density of cooling that you need per square foot is just so high. So it doesn’t take a very big facility that you need a lot of big cooling equipment.

Ed Keating:

Interesting. Now, in terms of looking at particular market segments, one of the groups that lots of people focus on are these large publicly traded MSOs, is this part of their playbook? Are they trying to do this or are they flush with enough cash, where they’re always building near where there’s plenty of electricity?

Steve LaFaille:

Right, yeah. So, we’ve seen a little bit of both. We’re definitely working with some of the big MSOs, some of the names that everyone listening probably would recognize. But we’re also working with a lot of the smaller groups that don’t have multiple facilities. And I think we’ve seen both types of customers face electric capacity constraints. So even the big folks that have more resources, for whatever reason, it seems like there’s no exception. People find themselves in that scenario.

Ed Keating:

Yeah.

Steve LaFaille:

But also, we find that if there’s an MSO that we’re not working with currently, we have found it’s more difficult to get them to consider something different because they’ve created a recipe and they want to stick with that. But I think the individual groups, they’re open to trying new ideas because they’re trying to compete with those people, those big MSOs.

Ed Keating:

Yes.

Steve LaFaille:

So, they’re willing to get creative, try different solutions that can give them an edge. And I think what we’re finding is, as all those customers start to use our equipment, including some of the MSOs, the other ones that aren’t, are looking over and saying, “Man, maybe we ought to think about considering that because the guy down the street, even if he doesn’t have the resources we have, if he’s putting this equipment and he’s able to cut his utility costs in half, well, he’s going to make a lot more profit when the prices start dropping and we might be in trouble.” So, we’re seeing people adopt on day one and then we’re seeing people adopt it later on in their maturity process.

Ed Keating:

Yeah. You get the early adopters and then the fast followers behind them when I realize that they don’t want to get left in the dust.

Steve LaFaille:

Exactly, exactly.

Ed Keating:

So, we sometimes see that with Cannabiz Media where people are like, “Well, who else is using this?” And we’ll say, “All your competitors.”

Steve LaFaille:

No.

Ed Keating:

Yeah, they are.

Steve LaFaille:

Right.

Ed Keating:

Yeah.

Steve LaFaille:

We’ve reached a level of market penetration in Massachusetts, for example, it’s very, very high. And that does come up a lot where people say, “Man, everyone within a 10-mile radius of me has his utility cost cut in half with this equipment. How am I going to compete if I don’t do it?”

Ed Keating:

Well, right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So one question I do want to ask, Steve, is how does your team utilize the Cannabiz Media platform? How do we, hopefully, help you find the people that are in need of these services?

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, no, it’s been great. We recently signed on with it and it’s just really helpful. Obviously, it’s essentially a CRM with contacts already loaded in it, which is wonderful. So you can drill down and figure out who to contact because that’s sometimes, always the hardest thing is, “I want to contact this company, but I don’t even know where to start.”

Ed Keating:

Right.

Steve LaFaille:

Or, “I don’t want to spend days on LinkedIn trying to get in touch with them.” So that’s been great. But the little benefits that we find, just keeping up on industry news.

Ed Keating:

Right.

Steve LaFaille:

We get an email almost every day that tells you all the happenings in the industry and just trying to stay up on that and getting a sense of which markets you want to focus your time on. So that’s been great.

Ed Keating:

Oh, good.

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, it’s hugely beneficial to us.

Ed Keating:

Oh, always good to hear as the guy in the data team, I like to hear that the data is being used and put to its best high purpose. So one of the last questions I want to ask, Steve, is the looking forward. We keep track of new jurisdictions that are coming on board or adding to their program, obviously here in New England, my home State of Connecticut is adding adult use, New York, adding adult use, New Jersey, adding adult use, New Mexico, adding adult use, on the other side of the country. What does that mean for you guys, in terms of, are there immediate implications for you or do you have to wait to see where these folks are setting up? When a new state comes on board, what do you and your team have to do to make sure that you get the best opportunities there?

Steve LaFaille:

Sure. Yes, and there’s a lot of states that are opening all at once. So, we tend to focus first, on the ones that have higher energy costs, because they’re going to have the greatest benefit from us. So, Connecticut’s a perfect example. And that is really just trying to reach out to those license holders, give them a brief education about what it is that we do and try to get in touch with their design teams. And the one benefit of having so much success here on the East Coast, is that a lot of the design teams that did these facilities, they’re moving on to these other states as they open up and they already know about our technology and they can put it forth to owners to add value. So we follow those folks too, as they enter those new markets, because a lot of our selling is owner-direct, so to speak. But a lot of it is through the consultants that are designing the facilities because they’re ultimately selecting the equipment that they feel will be the best fit for their client.

Ed Keating:

Yeah. They’re almost a value-added reseller, short of.

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, exactly. Their clients are counting on them to identify products that are going to move the needle for them. That’s one of the many things they’re getting paid to do.

Ed Keating:

Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. Because for you, they are people who have a one-to-many relationship, as opposed to an owner where it’s one-to-one. So, if you find people who are great and trustworthy and who can put your product forward, that’s got to be a great way to land and expand in some of these new markets, especially. Well, great. Well, I wish you luck as you and your team come into my State of Connecticut and all the other ones, because it’s definitely proving to be a dynamic year, in terms of new licenses. And one of the things that we’ve found is, often people are so anxious for, “Well, what are these licenses going to be out?” We know, and I think you do too, that it often takes 12 to 18 months for these licenses to actually get up and running, where they’re producing. And I think we’re in the midst of that here in some of these states. So, it’ll be an exciting time. Any chance that we’ll be seeing you at MJ Biz in a couple of weeks, out in Vegas?

Steve LaFaille:

Yeah, absolutely. We’ll have a booth there and we look forward to catching up with existing customers and hopefully many new ones.

Ed Keating:

Excellent. Well, Steve, thanks so much for joining us on today’s podcast. I’ll look forward to seeing you out in Las Vegas and I just encourage our viewers to stay tuned for more updates from the Data Vault.

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Source: https://www.cannabiz.media/blog/cannacurio-podcast-episode-39-with-steve-lafaille-of-tecogen

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